Destiny Quest

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Topic: Charm and combat specifics

• FabLandFan
  
  Community Member
  8 posts
  Charm and combat specifics

  8 April 2011 at 10:51pm

  I really enjoyed encountering the trickster mechanic.

  It made me feel as though I was playing the game wrongly. Or that the rules in the beginning were just a primer, and that I should expect to have to break the rules as the game develops and more complexity is introduced.

  I hope to encounter many more game-changing mechanics like trickster in Acts II and III.

  Before encountering trickster, I would roll two dice for my speed, calculate my total attack speed which was now set in stone, and then pick up and roll those same two dice for my opponent. Page 20 seems to suggest that this is the correct procedure.

  After learning about trickster, I pulled out two pairs of different coloured dice and I delayed calculating my total attack speed until after rolling my opponent's speed dice. My new combat sequence looked like:

  0.5. Play a potion, and/or non-passive abilities. Play appropriate passive abilities.
  1.0. Roll two (beige) dice for my attack speed.
  1.5. Play a potion, and/or non-passive abilities.
  2.0. Roll two (purple) dice for my opponent's attack speed.
  2.5. Play a potion, and/or non-passive abilities.
  3.0. Calculate total attack speed for both parties as per rules.
  …

  While I enjoyed this added complexity, it made me confused as to what the author's intent was regarding the charm ability.

  Before discovering trickster, I thought if you wanted to use charm to alter your attack speed you had to make the choice before knowing what your opponent will roll. (i.e. charm can only be used in step 0.5 or 1.5). After seeing trickster, your total attack speed is no longer set in stone prior to rolling for your opponent's speed, so maybe it is okay to use charm in step 2.5 too (which makes it so very much more powerful).

  Here is my full list of charm and combat questions (I've read most of the non-spoiler forum posts and I can't find answers to these. Sorry again for the extensive list of nit-picking questions):

  1. Can charm be used in step 2.5?

  2. When you have multiple charm effects, and you re-roll an unfavourable die and get an equally bad or worse result, can you use additional charm effects on that same die, or must you "accept the result of the second roll" as per the glossary.

  3. I can only use charm to re-roll my (beige) dice, right? I began to doubt this when reading point 10 in the on-line HvH rules (v1.2), which seems to suggest that in PvB (player-vs-book) a played can "influence their opponent's dice using charm."

  4. I've used trickster to give my opponent one of my (beige) dice, and take one of his (purple) dice. Can I use charm to re-roll this new (purple) die? Can I use charm to re-roll the die I gave to the opponent?

  5. In §233 against tail lash, if I roll a [1] then use charm and re-roll another [1], am I affected by tail lash once or twice?

  6. Regarding tail lash, it only applies to my (beige) dice, right? i.e. not to my opponent's (purple) dice.

  7. It seem's evident that webbed can only be played in step 0.5 or 1.5 … but is using cat's speed restricted to step 0.5, or can it be used in steps 1.5 and 2.5 as well?

  8. You've talked about acid and sear in another topic titled "Acid and returning to town" but it is still unclear to me. Do these apply for one round only, or for all remaining rounds for this encounter? (Making it either seriously underpowered, or seriously overpowered in my opinion).

  9.When I encountered charged in section §33 I freaked out. I had the bleed ability and I thought that for each 1 damage I bled the elemental, it would charge me back for 2. I resolved this by conjecturing that bleed damage is inflicted by the game state, and not by me, and thus the "each time you inflict health damage" clause does not apply. After the encounter, in section §243, I encountered lightning which is worded differently in terms of "damage score/damage dice". Is charged intended to be functionally equivalent to lightning? If not, is first cut and bleed intended to trigger charged?

  10. Can you choose not to apply your passives like first cut and bleed or are they mandatory? If they are optional, is both the initial application of bleed and each subsequent end-of-round application individually optional?

  11. If I land a fatal blow on an opponent with charged or lightning but I only have 2 health remaining, does the opponent also kill me?

  It may not be obvious from the fact that I have asked so many questions, but I actually like that gamebooks make the reader the final umpire on rule ambiguities. They seem to encourage you to play them the way that you feel brings you the most enjoyment.

  None-the-less I am still curious as to what the author's intent was regarding each ambiguity I encounter. Sorry for pestering you with all of the above, part of me thinks I should just be satisfied with my own interpretations and leave you alone to write more of DQ2.
• Da Boss
  
  Forum Moderator
  1013 posts
  Re: Charm and combat specifics

  9 April 2011 at 12:31am

  Your wall of text just crit me for 20k damage ;)

  Okay taking your queries one by one:

  1. Charm is a modifier ability. Modifier abilities can be used freely whenever you wish, during a combat. Therefore you could use charm to change one your die rolls for speed before or after rolling your opponent’s speed dice. Naturally, you would choose the latter – as you would wait and see if you needed to use it.

  2. You cannot use a second charm on the same die. Like it says, ‘you must accept the result of the second roll’.

  3. You can only use charm to change your own hero’s dice as it states in the glossary. That got changed quite late on (originally, you could change your opponent’s dice too). I need to remove that comment from the HvH rules.

  4. Yes. Trickster and charm are modifiers. Modifiers can be used whenever you wish and you can use as many modifiers a round as you want – so you could use trickster and then use charm to re-roll your new die. Nice, eh? (Although, that is two modifiers used up in one go.)

  5. Just the once.

  6. Any [1] that you roll, you take tail lash damage. That goes for all dice (you and your opponents). Those were-rats are nasty critters!

  7. Speed abilities are announced/used before you roll for attack speed. So you would decide to use webbed or cat’s speed before you shake and roll the dice. You don’t use a speed ability once the dice are on the table.

  You can however pop a speed potion whenever you want (a rule that was decided to make things simple).

  8. Acid and sear add 1 damage to each die you roll for damage. They last the entire combat. So if you won a combat round and rolled a [5] and had a brawn of 4, you would do 10 damage (5+4+1). If you had an ability that let you roll two dice for damage, then you would get +2. Believe me, they are not that overpowered – wait until Act 2 ;)

  9. Yes, the charged ability text is a little ambiguous. It should operate like lightning – you only take damage when you ‘hit’ it, not as the result of a passive such as bleed.

  10. I don’t think there would ever be a case when you wouldn’t want to inflict those on your opponent. (See point 9 – you don’t take damage from them.)

  11. Yes. Unlucky but it does happen.

  Don’t worry, questions are good! Hopefully, I have answered everything to the best of my ability. I think you were getting a bit confused over speed abilities and modifiers. If you keep to the principle that speed abilities come into play as soon as you start a round and modifiers are abilities you can call on whenever you want, then you should be ok! (The HvH rules are a good point of reference if you are unclear on when you can play abilities.)
• FabLandFan
  
  Community Member
  8 posts
  Re: Charm and combat specifics

  9 April 2011 at 4:28pm

  Thank-you for taking the time to clarify these points.
• GamerCoon
  
  Community Member
  1 posts
  Re: Charm and combat specifics

  1 January 2012 at 11:17am

  #11: So, if I land a fatal blow on an opponent with charged or lightning but I only have 2 health remaining, the opponent also kills me as well. In this case what happens? We have both been defeated. Since I was defeated, I write down the section number and return to the map, returning to full health. When I return to this quest, must I defeat the enemy a second time, or do I get to just continue on since they have been defeated? This doesn't seem to make much sense since it would be roughly equivalent to just claiming victory the first time around, but fighting them again also doesn't seem to make much sense.
• Legion
  
  Community Member
  10 posts
  Re: Charm and combat specifics

  1 January 2012 at 2:56pm

  I read it as you both die at the same time like in a crpg. But the mob respawns so you have to fight it again.
• Da Boss
  
  Forum Moderator
  1013 posts
  Re: Charm and combat specifics

  2 January 2012 at 7:42am

  Yes, technically it is still a defeat as you lost your hero. So under the current rule set, you would have to fight the battle again. It was an issue that I thought long and hard about when playtesting - and this ended up being the simplest solution from a rules point-of-view. Legion has it right that I had MMORPGSs/RPGs in mind when I devised the rules/game.

  Your choice really what you follow and what you change! ;)